Craft & Cluster

How to Identify Your Target Audience

June 07, 2021 Heather Daenitz | Zoë Dove-Many Episode 22
Craft & Cluster
How to Identify Your Target Audience
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Craft & Cluster
How to Identify Your Target Audience
Jun 07, 2021 Episode 22
Heather Daenitz | Zoë Dove-Many

You've heard me say it often enough on this podcast: the first place to start when creating a marketing strategy is to know your audience. 

But what does that mean? How do you identify your audience? How do you market to them once you do know them?  Well, that's precisely what I asked my new friend Zoë Dove-Many of Helloë Creative on this episode of the podcast. 

Zoë is a Brand Strategist and Designer based in LA who serves women & BIPOC owned and run brands that prioritize sustainability. As with many of my new friends, I met Zoë via Instagram.  She's been helping a mutual friend plan and execute a  marketing strategy for her new wine brand: Responsible Hedonist Wines.  Zoe walked me through the strategy they created together and I was immediately impressed with how detailed the Target Audience section was of the strategy and knew I had to have her on the podcast to talk more about it.

Connect with Zoë:
Website: www.helloecreative.com
Instagram: @helloecreative

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller

This episode is brought to you by my favorite social media planning app: Plann. Try Plann for free today!

If you loved this episode, please rate and review the podcast, it really helps new listeners find me! Also, please come connect with me on Instagram @craftandcluster I love seeing how you apply what you learn here

Disclaimer: The information contained on this podcast and the resources available for download through the accompanying website are for educational and informational purposes only. ​ The information contained on this podcast and the resources available for download through the accompanying website is not intended as, and shall not be understood or construed as legal, financial, tax, medical, health, or any other professional advice.

Show Notes Transcript

You've heard me say it often enough on this podcast: the first place to start when creating a marketing strategy is to know your audience. 

But what does that mean? How do you identify your audience? How do you market to them once you do know them?  Well, that's precisely what I asked my new friend Zoë Dove-Many of Helloë Creative on this episode of the podcast. 

Zoë is a Brand Strategist and Designer based in LA who serves women & BIPOC owned and run brands that prioritize sustainability. As with many of my new friends, I met Zoë via Instagram.  She's been helping a mutual friend plan and execute a  marketing strategy for her new wine brand: Responsible Hedonist Wines.  Zoe walked me through the strategy they created together and I was immediately impressed with how detailed the Target Audience section was of the strategy and knew I had to have her on the podcast to talk more about it.

Connect with Zoë:
Website: www.helloecreative.com
Instagram: @helloecreative

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller

This episode is brought to you by my favorite social media planning app: Plann. Try Plann for free today!

If you loved this episode, please rate and review the podcast, it really helps new listeners find me! Also, please come connect with me on Instagram @craftandcluster I love seeing how you apply what you learn here

Disclaimer: The information contained on this podcast and the resources available for download through the accompanying website are for educational and informational purposes only. ​ The information contained on this podcast and the resources available for download through the accompanying website is not intended as, and shall not be understood or construed as legal, financial, tax, medical, health, or any other professional advice.

Episode 22

Heather: [00:00:00] hello and welcome to the crafted cluster podcast. A show all about marketing your wine brand in the digital age. I'm your host, Heather. Daenitz a photographer and social media consultant based in Santa Barbara wine country. I help wineries tell the true stories of how they get their wine from grape to glass.

You've heard me say often enough on this podcast. The first place to start when creating a marketing strategy is to know your audience, but what does that even mean? How do you identify your audience and how do you market to them once you do know them? Well, that's precisely what I asked my new friend, Zoe Dove-Many on this episode of the podcast, Zoe is a brand strategist and designer based in LA who serves women and BIPOC owned and run wine brands that prioritize sustainability.

As with many of my new friends, I first met Zoe via Instagram. She's been helping a mutual friend plan and execute a marketing strategy for a brand new wine brand. Zoe walked me through the strategy they created together. And I was immediately impressed with how detailed the target audience section was of the strategy because it's so important.

I also know that this is one of the things that's most confusing and hardest to do when first tackling your marketing strategy. So I knew I had to have Zoe on the podcast to talk more about it. So without further ado, let's get into this episode of the craft and cluster podcast withZoë Dove-Many 

hi, Zoe, how are you doing today? It's always good to do this introduction with no one realizing that we've already been talking for a few minutes before. Uh, so tell us a little bit about yourself. What do you do? Who do you serve and why do you do it? I think that's a really important question too. 

Zoë: [00:01:58] Yeah, absolutely.

So I'm a brand strategist with a design background I'm based in LA.  I've been working in and around brands for 10 years. I've worked, I've designed for , clients like Hyatt, Hulu, BET, city winery, grub hub, Amazon prime. And now, as a strategist and designer, I help sustainability-focused founders learn how to tell their stories and connect with their audiences.

And I do it because it's fun!

Heather: [00:02:28] Yes. Yes. That's the most important why of all is because it's so much fun. So we're going to be talking a little bit about how to identify your ideal client avatar or ICA or also how, how you and I kind of discuss this as your target audience. But before we get into that, why is knowing your ICA so important?

Zoë: [00:02:53] It just makes everything so much easier when you do. I mean, otherwise, it's, you know, if you think about, if you think about even just when you're having a conversation with someone, like how you might explain something to your grandma versus how you might explain something to somebody who you work really close with, you might use really different language and you might, you might get really specific.

You might not. And if you don't know who you're talking to, it's like you have this. This blurry, moving target. It's really hard. 

Heather: [00:03:25] Yeah, absolutely. 

Zoë: [00:03:27] And, furthermore, the people on the other end, your, your target client, they don't know if you're, if you're the right person to be talking to them, they don't know if they're in the right place.

Heather: [00:03:36] Yeah, absolutely. It's always good to make sure that people know that they are in the right place. and I have also found that you know,  when I first started my business, I. talked to everybody. Cause I was in that, you know, I was in that really scary place of  I want anyone who wants to give me money to, to, you know, buy from me.

And so I just talked to everybody, but it made marketing so much more challenging for me. But the second that I started identifying who it was that I wanted to talk to,  the marketing side became so much easier and I started. Working with clients who actually liked me for one and also clients who I actually liked,  those first few months were rough because it was, it was lots of people who didn't fit well with me and, you know, vibe well with me and that wasn't fair to them and it wasn't fair to me. And so, yeah, this is a really, really important topic. So I'm super psyched that we're going to be getting into it. Well, the reason that we're talking about this is that you and I connected, via our mutual friend, Diana, who I,  I don't know if I, I don't know if we're considered friends yet, but I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, that she's my friend, because, I interact with her on Instagram all the time, official Instagram official, or Instagram friends.

 And you actually helped her put together her, full brand package and marketing strategy. Her new wine brand. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes. So, cool. Let's talk a little bit about her and kind of what, what you did for her. 

Zoë: [00:05:10] Yeah. Yeah. so Diana. I've known her for maybe like eight years now.

We used to work together at city winery. I was a graphic designer at city winery in-house, for four years. And she was a sommelier there. And her now-husband also was a sommelier there. And so they. Have since we all have left the company and I moved to LA if this is from Chicago. So I moved to LA, they moved to New Zealand.

 And then they actually asked me to help them with starting their new wine brand. So yeah, they came to me with just like an idea and a lot of passion and kind of, not really knowing where to start. , they knew they needed a logo and they knew that they needed a label and You know, after a few conversations with them, they, you know, look, luckily for me, they, they were totally down to do a brand strategy as well as a visual identity for their brand.

So we just, you know, we, we went deep and to a couple of workshops,  learning how. Learning like what they care about learning, why they were doing what they were doing and what they wanted to do, and, and just kind of taking insights from all that, putting it all together into a cohesive brand, putting colors and textures and logos together, and just making a whole, making a whole nice package for them all responsible.

Heather: [00:06:35] Yeah. I was really impressed with the.  Way that you approach kind of fully fleshing out who their ideal client was, who their target audience was.  Cause it's something that I, I do for my clients when I'm onboarding them for social media management and photography and everything, but I didn't, I've never gone like that in depth.

And. And I just immediately saw the benefits of it. And so I was like, I have to talk to her. This is, you know, I always joke that this podcast is just me being selfish and like picking the brains of,  people I admire. And so I was like, have to have her on the podcast. We have to talk more about this because this is such a great topic.

 And what I did was I,  you know, went into my. My Instagram this weekend and I asked them all a question and I was like, okay, you guys, I'm going to be having this brand strategist on. We're going to be talking about ideal clients. So what questions do you have? Because I know that this is a part, this is something that is really, really important to have, but it's also something that is so often overlooked and it's.

And which makes marketing so much harder as we've talked about. So,  my audience, they have asked a few questions and so I'm wondering if you can go through and answer them for us. 

Zoë: [00:07:53] I'd love to. 

Heather: [00:07:55] So the first question is how do I identify more specific info on my audience, such as their likes or their dislikes?

Zoë: [00:08:05] Yeah, I mean, This one is , I don't know how specific this and this, the information they already have is, but it's really just, just asking. It sounds so simple, but I mean the exact same way that you just went onto your Instagram and asked your clients what they wanted to know.  You can ask, they can ask their audience about what they like or dislike, and I guess,  You know,  it's a little hard, it's harder for people to answer the question.

What do you like, or what do you dislike? But you know, if you kind of catch onto some kind of a common thread, you can ask, like, you know, maybe you have a hunch that your audience really likes, PinotGrigio, and then you can ask, like, what are your thoughts on Pinot Grigio and see, see what happens, see where it leads you.

So I think the big takeaway is like, just ask them and don't get too, too worried about. Trying to learn about your whole pool of, of client or potential clients or audience. It's like just find one person who really likes your brand and ask them what they like and dislike. Yeah. And then even an easier way even to do, to go about that.

Or like, I dunno if it's easier, but it's another way is, is to do what we call social listening was it, which is essentially. Instagram stalking, you know, looking at what the people who are following your account, like, what else are they following and what are they commenting on? What are they saying? 

Heather: [00:09:38] Yeah, for sure.

That's something that I do cause I, what I'll do for my clients is I'll go into and I'll see who is interacting with them most frequently, you know, who's leaving comments. Consistently or who is DM-ing them consistently and we'll go into their profile. If they're a private account, we'll follow them so that we can better facilitate the stocking process.

And, uh, and, and we'll look at who they're following and who else they're interacting with and kind of what their own content looks like. You know, what, what they're posting about, what are the things that they find valuable enough to put on their own Instagram accounts? And, and that is always really, really enlightening.

So that's a really, really great tip, 

Zoë: [00:10:24] in geotags as well, where it is. 

Heather: [00:10:26] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a really, a really, really valuable tool, really valuable insight. It's like, where else are, where are they spending their time?  So another question that we had was do you base your target audience slash ideal client on an audience that you already have or on an audience that you don't have yet?

I think that's also a really great question. 

Zoë: [00:10:52] It is a great question. Yeah. And I would ask that person, I would say it depends. Do you like your audience? If you like them then yeah. Based them on those, on the people that you like the most who like you the most, and if you don't like them, I would, you know, base it on someone you do. Like 

Heather: [00:11:13] yeah, absolutely. Well that kind of goes into another question.  How do you balance having enough detail about your ICA versus being so specific that you're only targeting a tiny niche of your market? 

Zoë: [00:11:29] The, yeah, this is something that, strategists talk about all the time, and this is really, this is really tricky and you really start to get into the weeds when you start to, when you start to make your avatar and think about all this stuff.

So, and this is something that I think about all the time. So a couple things here,  The, what you're targeting is a mindset. So rather than saying I'm targeting 32 year old women or people who have dogs, you're targeting people who you're targeting the way that they think about themselves and the way that they, , interact with the world, which is.

Abstract. And I know it was kind of an annoying answer, but I do not get in the hall examples to kind of flush this out a little bit. Um, so first of all, you're targeting a mindset for your overall brand persona and then for individual campaigns, that's where you can get really granular. If you're, you know, going in on one particular product or one particular holiday, that's when you can get super specific,  So, for example, a mindset like people who come to your vineyard and,  and tasting room, maybe you figure out that they're all people who are like really DIY and they love to get their hands dirty and feel like they're a part of the action.

Maybe that's kind of your overall mindset. That you target and then maybe for an individual campaign, maybe it's like you, you find a pattern in these people that like, some of them are huge punk rock fans. So maybe for one of your campaigns, you target the punk rock fans who also like to get their hands dirty making wine, and you can, and that can help, that can help inspire partnerships.

You know, you can look at festivals in the area or podcast, stuff like that.  Also another thing that I like to think of is Tim Ferriss, who, you know, is famously makes a lot of super popular content. He has said that he hopes that for everything he publishes, you know, newsletter, social podcasts, whatever that 10% of his audience will love it.

And so the rest of might think, Ooh, that's interesting, but 10% are like, yes, this is for me. Yeah.  So you, he may have 10 different subsets within his overall mindset of, of niches. 

Heather: [00:13:43] That's really smart. I think, what I like to think about with this is, is what is the identity that you want your audience to sort of step into or embody?

And that's something that I kind of pulled from, I mean, you know, Sort of briefly touched on this in some of our previous conversations, but building a StoryBrand with Donald Miller. Yes. Donald Miller, please come on my podcast. That would be, so he talks a lot about helping your audience step into an identity.

And he talks about, he tells this story about this. I forget it's called Gerber knives or something. His knives, this,  all their marketing is, is geared towards people who are adventurous and who, you know, like seize the day and,  are cutting fishing lines, you know, off of boat rudders and things like that.

And they're very, you know, they're out in the wilderness and surviving and stuff, 

Zoë: [00:14:38] and he's like gutting fishes and whatnot. 

Heather: [00:14:40] Yeah. Gutting fishes with their Gerber knives.  And so, and I. I every time I hear this story and he tells it often I laugh because he's like, yeah, I have a Gerber knife in it. And he's like the last person that you would, you would think, yeah, it would be that person.

Right. But it's so true. It's and it's so funny because he, like, he talks about that. He's like, I'm a writer. Like I'm not the kind of person that's going to be like out, you know, like gutting a fish, you know, like in the middle of the wilderness with, . I don't know. Or like, whatever, but he's     , but he's like Gerber knives did such a great job in their marketing and marketing and advertising to the kind of person that they want to, , be, you know, using their products that.

He that they built this identity for him to step into. He wants to be that kind of person. And so that's a question that I often ask myself with each of my clients and even with my own, my own content, it's like, well, what's the kind of person that I want my, my audience to be like, who'd who do I want to be talking to?

You know, and I think the company Blundstone. It's a boot company. I know we have a lot of winemakers that listened to this, this, uh, this podcast. And so they probably either own red backs or Blundstones, but,  Blundstones, I think does a really good job of this on their marketing, where they will actually be okay.

Inviting, you know, their, the identity that they invite their audience to step into is one of being crafters. There they're makers, everyone who wears Blundstone boots, they are makers of some kind. So there.  You know, maybe they're wood workers or maybe they're wine makers, or maybe they are bakers even.

And a lot of the times they will position their marketing around the people and the identity rather than the actual product itself, which I think is really, really smart. So yeah, that's a, that's a really, really great tip for, for everyone to listen to is like, what's the mindset what's identity that you want your audience to be stepping into.

Zoë: [00:16:49] I love, uh, I love that, that example of, of the knife. And I think that's, so, it's so common with outdoor brands. Like you see this for some reason, a bunch of outdoor brands. Like they got our address with the catalogs and we get them all the time at my house. Like, what do they think I am? It's like really the, the, the, the rugged, you know, outdoors people like mentality that they are, Selling me is really evident and really effective.

Um, and, and you see it also a lot,  in the wellness sector, people like products, I dunno, like aroma therapy oils, or maybe like meditation apps or products or yoga related items. I mean, how many people do you know who. Totally buy those products, but also maybe like party a lot on the weekends, like, but it's, it's, it's an, it's an aspirational identity and it's good. I, it, it inspires you. 

Heather: [00:17:54] Absolutely. I mean, there are, there are companies with products that don't resonate with me at all, because I can never see myself embodying that. Like, like Prana like, I, I'm not the kind of person who wears prana just because that's not the lifestyle that I'm after, but like, you know, shit, I love Patagonia.

So, and that's the, that's the lifestyle I'm after and they're not, I mean, yeah. Prana is more like geared towards the Yogi and everything, but like, People who wear Prana also do the things that Patagonia does and like people who wear Patagonia, you know, they also do the things that people that were Prana do.

And so I think it's, it's really a really interesting dynamic is that these, these companies have really been able to allow their audience to embody these separate identities and really geared towards those people. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to also reach these other kind of adjacent audiences.

Zoë: [00:18:54] Yeah. And you're going to overlap. I mean, after all, a lot of the products are the same thing, right? 

Heather: [00:18:58] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it, it just, it's so fascinating to me because I don't identify as like the Yogi, but I do identify it as  this outdoor person. And so I'll for sure go out and like, you know, spend my money with Patagonia, but there are also people who will shop at both companies.

And so it's really, I don't know if I'm making a good point here, but I think the point that I'm trying to make is that if, if I feel like some people might be like, okay, well, I don't want to get too niche, you know? Into this one person, but at the same time, it's like, you know, yeah, you're going to, of course my podcast is geared towards wine brands and small wine brands particularly, but that doesn't mean that I'm not also attracting, you know, wine influencers and, and  other people who need help with their marketing or beer,  companies or things like that.

You know, I'm also really reaching these other people, even though. Who I'm talking to is this one specific type of brand. So,  yeah, so I don't, I don't want people to feel like they're not gonna, they're gonna lose business or something by getting by really dialing in this person because they're not.

Zoë: [00:20:06] Yeah, it's so true. And that's a huge fear among especially new brands is alienating their customers. But as soon as you get too scared of alienating your customers, you. Alienate everybody because you don't stand for anything. 

Heather: [00:20:19] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. So let's get into the next question here.  What are some good prompts to ask yourself about your ICA that will go beyond the demographic info?

So this will, again, kind of go more into that mindset thing that you were just talking about. What are some good prompts to ask, ask yourself about, , to identify the mindset that you want your. Ideal audience to step into. 

Zoë: [00:20:47] Yeah, so I would, well, first of all, I wouldn't, if you have to ask yourself, go ahead and ask yourself, but I would just ask that person if you can. Cause it's way easier.  But I would ask things like, you know, any, anything that can just kind of get at a deeper part of who this person is and, and what other. Like what stuff they're doing. So demographics, I kind of divide this into three things. So demographics are like the super surface level stuff out.

We all know what demographics are. How old are you? How many kids do you have? Do you have a dog? Like where do you live? Do you have cars? You drive whatever. Then the next layer down is psychographics. So that's, what are you reading? Like what other brands are you engaging with? What podcasts are you listening to?

What influencers are you following? Like who are the big sort of, like industry leaders or figures that you respect and care about? That's psychographics. And then the next level down is mindset, which is like, what do you believe? So. We want to just get below that demographic level. Right? So into either of those two other levels that I just mentioned are great.

 The, the psychographic level is a really easy one to start with. Cause it's like, what are you reading? Who do you follow? Like who's, who's. Who's someone that you admire in your industry, who maybe you you've read or follow them on? You know, on social. , what other beverages and brands do you like?

Like what other wine brands do you like? What other beverages do you like? Why do you drink wine versus beer at any other, any like specific occasion? When and where are you consuming my product? And if you do like my brand, why do you like my brand? And then, and then that's a great, opportunity just to just keep asking why, like people might say, oh, well, like, you know, I like, I like cab and you make cabinets like, okay, well, okay, cool.

Like thousands of other wine makers make cab. Why do you like mine? And maybe they'll say something really interesting. Maybe they'll say like, well, It just doesn't feel pretentious. And then it's like, oh, that's a whole other thing that we're talking about here. Tell me more about that. What, what makes it feel unpretentious to you?

And you might find that that's a whole area that you can lean into that. Like I make unpretentious cab, , I guess I hit all of them and then, oh, and then, yeah, just like were asking them, like, where do you get, where do you get your information about wine? Where do you learn about it? Those, those would all be great questions to ask, but ultimately just lean into your own curiosity and try to go deeper.

And a great question to go deeper is why. Yeah. Why? And tell me more 

Heather: [00:23:32] why, and tell me more, say more that's yeah, I'm going to start incorporating the, why do you do what you do into all of my interviews now? Because I think that's, it's fascinating to me. I find it really interesting. And it does, it brings out a little bit more.

 Information about the person that I'm talking to and a little bit more dives, deeper into it and helps build a deeper relationship, which, I mean, speaking particularly about social media is that's what, that's the ultimate goal. Even if, even if you think your ultimate goal is to sell more wine or whatever, the ultimate goal of social media is to build deeper connections with, with these people.

And so asking them will, why. Tell me more, that would be a really great way to deepen those connections and really build really strong, healthy relationships with your, with your audience and your customers. And it makes sense. Interesting conversation. Yeah, it really does. All right. So  this was a really interesting question that we got, and it's, it's several questions in one, I think.

How do you change your ICA? And so for context, this brand says, I have purchased an established winery and have been steadily improving and growing our brand with lots of success. But so far, our branding is not cohesive. The old versus the new, I need to reach for a larger client base to continue growing, but I'm not sure how to broaden our appeal.

So this, this.  The issue that they're having is that they bought a winery that had a very loyal audience, and now they're, you know, kind of taking the brand in a slightly different direction and they're wanting to know how to change their target audience. 

Zoë: [00:25:20] Yeah. I have a lot of questions about this, this scenario.

 I think. I think I would start with trying to figure out what is the through line between the old versus the new, and instead of thinking of it as old versus new, I would think of, you're just kind of a grownup version of the old version.  And I would think about your ideal client as. I encourage people to, to be comfortable with the idea that your ideal client is a living being, even though it's like, it's an avatar that you're creating, it's growing and changing just like you are and just like your brand is and any relationship that you have.

So, you know, it's going to be an ongoing conversation having for this case,  I would. So I would, I would try to find that through line. And then I would maybe if you're trying to broaden your audience, find out, I would maybe like ask more about psychographics. Like what is, maybe you find out that some people, or like a chunk of people who are into your brand are really into.

Coffee. And maybe you can create partnerships with coffee brands and coffee shops, or maybe they're into, like maker, craft, maker, festivals. I mean, you can partner with those kind of, kind of, events. So it's, it's kind of just, it's leaning into what's already there and what's working for you and figuring out, figuring out what those things are.

Heather: [00:26:54] Yeah. I think one of the things that I like to do is create. A hit list of sorts, which is like such a weird way to put it. But a list of, of adjacent brands that I know would resonate with my audience. And again, that goes back to researching, you know, who are the people that you. No are interacting with your, your, content frequently or interacting with your brand frequently.

Maybe they're a frequent buyer or a, you know, member of your wine club. That's been around for a while. I like to dive into who else, like what other brands they're interacting with and then create. a hit list of those brands to see if that would be, those would be valuable partnerships either by going live on Instagram or Facebook, or by doing like an actual, like, bundle like a package, you know, gift basket during the holidays or something like that.

Oh, can we, can we, create, like you said, can we create a, a bundle or a package with a coffee brand that we know our ideal client really likes or, Something like that. So yeah, those are always really great places to start, I think, yeah. It all goes back to just knowing who your fans are and then learning more about them.

So I think that's it. That's a great, a great place to start.

 okay. So, at the end of these interviews, I always like to ask, you know, what's one thing that your audience can do. This week, or our audience can do this week to get going on this topic to really like start actually implementing the things that they learn on this podcast instead of just listening and then like piecing out.

Yeah. So, so,

Zoë: [00:28:44] I love that. 

Heather: [00:28:44] Yeah. So what would you say is one thing our audience can do this week to, , learn more about their ideal client and really start building out this persona? 

Zoë: [00:28:56] Yeah, I would. I mean, we've touched on, touched on it already, so you might be able to guess already, but it's find, find a super fan, find someone who's already engaging with your brand and not just any person find the person who fucking loves your brand and ask them if you can get them lunch, buy them lunch, or invite them to your tasting room.

And and interview them and, and there'll be, there'll be stoked because they love your brand. And, you know, I ideally not someone who knows you really well, like, you know, your sister or something like somebody who engaged with you because of your, your product or your service.  And yeah, just ask them the questions that we talked about before, ask them why they like your product.

And your space. If you have one and the. The main things that you're trying to get to are like, how do they see themselves in the world? And so get to that by just asking why over and over. And the second thing is where to find more people like them. So you're looking for their watering holes, like who, what industry figures do they follow and respect and talk about?

What kind of events are they going to? What kind of podcasts are they listening to? And then. You can and then, and then you know where to look for more people like them. So that's that's, if you already have a brand, if you don't already have a brand, it's a little trickier.  I mean, with, with Diana and Frank, they were amazing of responsible heatedness they were, they were like gifted with this amazing imagination and like, Observation skills.

So they kind of like, they were able to just invent their ideal client based on people that they knew, who they thought would really like their brand. But if, if you don't, if you're not Diana, if you're not Diana and Frank, and you're not really sure how to do that I would find someone who, you know, who you think.

Would like your brand and then interview them as though they are, it is as though they are, you're already your brand super fan. And you might find that they're just telling you things that they like about you, which can be really useful. A lot of our brands are just about ourselves, especially in winemaking it's about the winemaker and the story of the people behind it.

Heather: [00:31:22] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, especially if you're a smaller brand, it it's. Okay. You are as a smaller brand, you are your brand. You are, it's a personal brand until it grows big enough, you know, grows out of its britches into a bigger, a bigger brand. You know? So that's, I think that's a really smart place to start.

 I mean, that was something that I, I mean, to add to this, when I first started craft & cluster, I had no idea, you know, who might my brand would be, but I was like, okay, well, who do I want to work with? Yeah. You know, like, you know, who, who do I, like, who would I feel happy about,  collaborating with, you know, who, who would I do this for free for?

And, and so I kind of, yeah, so it's, you know, just kind of identifying that person. And so, you know, and then I found, okay, well, The person that I want to work with is like XYZ. You know, they have a, a woman in leadership or a woman winemaker. They are, you know, responsible farmers or responsible wine makers.

They make wine sustainably, you know, things like that. And so I started building out this person and then I went and looked for those brands that fulfilled those. Those things. So, again, creating a hit list of, of brands that I was like, I have to work for this person or this brand. 

Zoë: [00:32:47] It's funny how well it works because, um, you and I want to work with.

What did you just say? You said women, women in leadership, 

Heather: [00:32:55] women in leadership, 

Zoë: [00:32:56] in wine brands and, people who are doing like responsible, sustainable farming. Those are both huge things for me. And here, I just found you on it. I like her, like

Heather: [00:33:10] this is the power of knowing. It's the power of knowing your ideal client and knowing your target audience is that you make connections beyond that. And you, you end up finding like-minded people who are also kind of targeting the same type of people, the same, same type of brands. And, um, that's beautiful.

Zoë: [00:33:30] I'mnot a winemaker by any stretch of imagination, but still very attracted to your brand. 

Heather: [00:33:36] Yeah. It kind of goes into like sharing your values as well. Like that's who. You know, people want to support brands and individuals who support the things that they support, you know? And so it's, I think it's really important to really share those things often and really, identify what are the things that you stand for, that you stand for as a company, and then, and then search for somebody who also supports those things.

So that's really great. Well, holy moly. We went into that. We got into it. So before I let you go, what, how can our audience start working with you? How can they learn more about you? , do you have any, anything cool coming up that you want to launch or talk about? Let's talk about that. 

Zoë: [00:34:32] Yeah, you can find me.

You can find my website at hello. We creative.com, H E L L O E. creative.com. And, what is coming up? I'm watching my business and yeah, Instagram, you can follow me there.  And that's also, it's at hello, E creative. 

Heather: [00:34:52] Wonderful. That's awesome. I'm so excited. 

Zoë: [00:34:57] Very much, very much inspired by you. So I have you to thank for that.

Heather: [00:35:02] Thank you. I do my best. Awesome. Well, Zoe, thank you so much for being so awesome. I'm definitely going to get you back on the podcast ASAP, to talk more, maybe we can just nerd out about Billy and StoryBrand and Donald Miller.  

Zoë: [00:35:19] Yeah, it's pretty easy for us to just like talk at length. 

Heather: [00:35:23] So Donald Miller, we love you!

Anyways, so I'm gonna let you go. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I really appreciate you. Um, just being yourself and being awesome and showing up here and teaching the, the amazing listeners all about how to identify their target audience. It's such an important thing. So I'm so psyched to talk about it.

Zoë: [00:35:48] Thank you. Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. 

Heather: [00:35:52] All right, that's it. For this episode of the craft and cluster podcast, you can head to the show notes for any resources mentioned in this episode and learn more about our awesome guest. If you found this show super valuable, please rate and review it. It really helps new listeners find me.

And don't forget to connect with me on Instagram at craft and cluster. And to make sure you never miss an episode, be sure to follow the show on apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. I'll see you next Monday. Bye.